Talk:Temporal Prime Directive
Trials and Tribble-ations "The existence of Starfleet Regulation 157, Section 3, Paragraph 18 (quoted in DS9: "Trials and Tribble-ations"), further complicates matters." Is it possible this rule became known as the "Temporal Prime Directive"? It does seem that what was once created as a basic rule (probably after all of Kirk's infractions) became more of a fundamental theology and guiding principle as more time-travel activities became noticed - especially to the degree that the Temporal Investigations Bureau being created. What do others think? -- MiChaos 18:16, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC) :I would think that the Temporal would be a newly-formed aspect of General Order 1, only more subjective with such subjects as the Temporal Cold War coming into play. --ChrisK 13:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC) Doctor's mobile emittor thoughts How does the Doctor's mobile emitter fit into this? Doesn't his use (and continued use) of this technology from the future violate the TPD? It certainly changed history. Is this ever addressed in Voyager? Carbonari 23:55, 25 January 2006 (UTC) *Greetings, that is actually a very interesting observation. Proper protocol would've been the destruction of the emitter and information related to it. However, the writers probably forgot about this aspect and were focusing on giving the Doctor mobility. - Adm. Enzo Aquarius 23:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC) Scientific point-of-view :From a scientific point of view, the concept of a timeline is very questionable. If you travel back in time, you will inevitably change the course of history, whether or not you kill historically important people. Even if you altered the flight of a butterfly in the past, that might create a hurrican sic which will result in huge changes of the future. I removed the above information from the background section, as "scientific point of view" here is another word for personal opinion and speculation. We will "inevitably" alter the course of history, regardless of whether we kill someone? Is this statement based on personal experience? If so, you've made a major scientific achievement, my friend. :D --From Andoria with Love 04:10, 8 March 2006 (UTC) :It's based on the reality of Chaotic Environmental Scenarios (here dubbed CES). Hurricanes are formed by VERY small things, in the beginning; no telling which little vibration of the air will start them. Other weather patterns form, as well, in similar circumstances. If you walk on dirt, you might've just killed a particular microbe a million years down the line...or even 100 years down the line. Talking to one person changes the second they arrived at a given place at a given time, ALWAYS...on most of those occasions, they may go about their business; on some, they might very well not: Gabriel Bell involved this exact scenario, in fact. What Temporal Investigations no doubt does is the subjective task of figuring out if the changes made to the timeline constitute a viable threat to history, which is in turn subjective: the history everyone in the Federation wants is the one in which they win; the Borg Collective has no problems with altering that to try to assimilate anything (which makes you wonder why they didn't just time-travel WAY before they got to Earth, but that screams mental plot-hole). Either way, the entire situation is simple: none of the time travel scenarios is accurate, since if any of this was possible, the wars would already be over...unless, of course, Temporal Investigations is smack-dab on Forever World, where nothing ever changes, and time apparently does not pass. *grins* --ChrisK 13:34, 23 November 2006 (UTC) ::Also, be aware, scientific point of view is as opinionated as the opinion that humans can see the visible light spectrum. They can. Period. --ChrisK 13:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC) :::As for the "Forever world" quip. I seem to recall that the Guardian of Forever protected the area around it from temporal changes... so it's possible that Temporal Investigations is based there. :::It's possible that there were limits to the borg time travel technology, though that the Enterprise was able to alter it's deflector dish (which was already jettisoned and destroyed in the same film, without the option of a replacement part coming around for another 300 years or so...) to replicate the tech does kinda torpedo that concept. :::The only plausible theory I have on the subject was from a novel that suggested that the machine planet V'Ger made contact with was The Borg. It's possible that this somehow altered their history as a race, perhaps leading them to take to the stars in the first place, thus the Borg would be aware (from assimilating previous starfleet personnel) that assimilating earth before voyager probe launches would prevent them from going to the stars at all. With the post WWIII era being defined as the point in history when humanity would be most vulnerable. (StarkeRealm 07:31, 21 July 2007 (UTC)) Star Trek IV Isn't the time travel of the Enterprise crew in Star Trek IV also a violation of this directive? They're "stealing" two whales and taking Gillian Taylor with them, Chekov leaves his equipment behind when he is captured by the Navy aboard the aircraft carrier Enterprise, and although Scotty gives an "explanation" for his actions, he hands down the formula for transparent aluminum to Dr. Nichols. Besides, the landing and starting procedure of the Bounty (their captured Bird of Prey) is, despite being cloaked, witnessed by four people, and when the harpoon of the whaling ship hits the BoP, its cloak is disabled, thereby revealing their existence to the fisherman. Thus, it could be seen as a violation, could it not? And even if the directive was not yet in effect and their actions were later sanctioned by the president of the Federation, I think it should be noted, if this is a violation (which, in my opinion, it certainly is). --smintili 02:18, January 31, 2010 (UTC) :Technically, yes it would be, even if Kirk could argue that the changes to the timeline were not "significant" in effect.Capt Christopher Donovan 08:38, September 9, 2010 (UTC) Temporal violations It may be that the Directive is a blanket reference to all time-travel activity; during a conversation with Captain Sisko, agents of Temporal Investigations stated that Captain Kirk had the most Temporal Prime Directive violations on record to date with seventeen examples references (Although none were specifically identified) ( ). This note is wrong, as it was stated that he had 17 temporal violations, with nothing said about the TPD. Of course, these could be TPD violations, but it was never stated. - 18:50, March 21, 2010 (UTC) Spock violated? The following was removed by an anon and then readded: *Ambassador Spock violated the directive when he did not act to restore the timeline after it had been altered by the actions of Nero that led to the formation of an alternate reality. It wasn't mentioned, and Spock did what he could to end Nero's rampage through the alternate reality.--31dot 01:30, September 9, 2010 (UTC) Temporal Prime Directive It is suggested that following be removed Ambassador Spock violated the directive when he did not act to restore the timeline after it had been altered by the actions of Nero that led to the formation of an alternate reality. (Star Trek) :Not wanting to start a 35kb debate on this, but the "old" spock was living in the main timeline and fully aware (see movies and episodes) of the temporal prime directive. By messing around with it in the newest stunt by Abrams, he was technically violating it. He did not restore the timeline and fiddled around to essentially save his friendship with Kirk, never mind the rest of the universe. – Distantlycharmed 01:36, September 9, 2010 (UTC) Technically we're dealing with another reality, not another timeline. There is a difference. Even so, I'm wondering what Spock was supposed to have done to "restore" the original timeline, given the damage was done before he arrived(he could not go and bring George Kirk and the Kelvin back to life)--31dot 01:38, September 9, 2010 (UTC) :I dont know, the writers could have come up with something right :) They always do. In 45 minutes usually the worst scenarios are fixed. But, this is not a debate about what Spock could have done to restore timeline (so rewording of above might be needed), it is one about Spock fiddling around with it, thus changing events (kirk and spock friendship) that were a different reality altogether. He changed their reality by interfering. – Distantlycharmed 01:46, September 9, 2010 (UTC) ::That's a very interesting perspective, but the fact remains that at no point is it mentioned on screen that his actions were in violation of anything. Therefore it does not belong in this article. -- 01:50, September 9, 2010 (UTC) :The TPD is not mentioned on screen, and so mentioning it here would be pure speculation. One could just as easily speculate that the TPD doesn't apply to forms of time travel that result in alternate realities rather than changing the original timeline, and so Spock was not in violation of it. We just don't know. -- 01:41, September 9, 2010 (UTC) It seems to me that Nero did more fiddling than Spock did. What Spock did was try to limit the damage to the new reality, but he recognized it for what it was- a new reality, not just a different timeline. The TPD is not relevant.--31dot 01:54, September 9, 2010 (UTC) :::The temporal prime directive has to do with changing history. How could Spock change history when he had no idea how history was supposed to go in this new reality? Was it even supposed to go in a certain way, or was Spock as much a part of it as any of the characters? Since it was a new reality, maybe there wasn't a set way it was supposed to go. I'm getting a headache...I don't think it would apply unless Spock new that history was supposed to turn out a different way, and he interfered anyway. -Angry Future Romulan 02:06, September 9, 2010 (UTC) It doesnt matter that it wasnt mentioned per se. You dont need Spock to say "oh I totally violated the temporal prime directive, what a pisser" to see he did it. Yes Nero changed things around but Spock came back, trying to change history only in the sense that he wanted Kirk and his younger self to be friends again. I never understood the importance for human kind to have kirk and spock be friends. As far as the script is concerned, these two (in the movie) shouldnt even have been friends that's how little they could stand each other until pretty much the last minute. But I do see Blair's point and I dont care enough about the issue to push it further. Spock came back to get his friendship with Kirk going, somehow believing they two alone made the ultimate difference in the universe and were the cause and end of it all, which seems to me like messing around with things. – Distantlycharmed 05:47, September 9, 2010 (UTC) ::::It isn't incumbent upon us to decide HOW Spock Prime should have tried to fix the timeline. Give me a few minutes and I can techno-temporalbabble up an explanation. ::::What IS important is the simple fact that the Prime timeline has a Temporal Prime Directive that clearly states that Starfleet officers aren't supposed to change the timeline and must act to preserve history as they know it before said change. Spock Prime didn't try to undo the damage in toto, by dealing with the root source of the damage (Nero destroying the Kelvin), he just tried to put the pieces back together again as they were. That's a TPD violation. 08:23, September 9, 2010 (UTC) :::::On top of all the other good reasons to remove this note, we can't even be sure that this directive applies to Old-Spock at all. I don't think it has been conclusively stated that that (a) directive is still in effect, and (b) that Old-Spock is still a member of Starfleet. -- Cid Highwind 09:36, September 9, 2010 (UTC) ::::There are no other good reasons to remove the note. There are no reasons to remove the note at all. Spock Prime did not act to restore history to it's "proper" course. He violated the TPD. And Prime Directives apply to NON-Starfleet personnel, per "Bread and Circuses, and "Homeward".Capt Christopher Donovan 09:40, September 9, 2010 (UTC)